Anissa Ballesteros is here today to share her two birth stories with us. For her first baby, Anissa had planned and prepared for an unmedicated hospital birth but her baby was breech so she ended up having a cesarean. When she got pregnant with her second baby, she knew she wanted a different experience so she hired Karly and planned a home birth. Anissa shares about how difficult her cesarean birth was for her and how healing and positive her HBAC (home birth after cesarean) experience was.
Transcription by Karly Nuttall:
Ali: Hi and welcome to the Birth Kweens podcast, weâre your birth kweens. Iâm Ali.
Karly: And Iâm Karly.
Ali: We have a birth story for you kweens today. We have one of Karlyâs past client, right?
Karly: Yeah, very recent
Ali: I love it. Yeah, with a little one Anissa is on the line, Hi!
Anissa: Hi
Ali: how are you?
Anissa: Iâm good, Iâm good, how are you ladies?
Ali: Were good, thank you for doing this!
Karly: So good, so glad that you came!
Anissa: Yeah, thanks! Iâm excited to share.
Karly: Anissa has not one, but two birth stories, you know how we like to cram âem in. But as often happens, one birth story relates to the other in a really significant way.
Ali: Yep, totally, and I think too, weâve done this before where we have a guest that one or the other of us knows really well or was at their birth and the other one knows almost nothing so itâs like kind of: âGuys, Iâm listening to this birth story with you right now, which is greatâ
Karly: Itâs news for Ali.
Ali: So, Anissa, maybe just tell us a little bit about your family, how old your kids are, a little background.
Anissa: Well, I was born and raised in San Diego. My husband is from California, heâs from the bay area and we have a 2 year old son, Jimmy and we have a, I guess 2 ½ month old daughter named Gianna and Karly was my midwife for Gia and I would say my birth stories are kind of like a yin yang for a way to describe them. One of them was really, really tough and Iâm really happy that the second one kind of made it all better.
Ali: âAw, good.
Karly: Sometimes theyâre like that. The second baby or the second birth kind of comes in and makes you feel like birth is alright! It can be pretty cool.
Ali: Yeah, Iâd sworn it off after the first one, haha!
Anissa: I keep saying, too, that sheâs tricking me because sheâs been really easy and like, really good and Iâm like, no, no, no, sheâs tricking me. Weâre not going to have any more, Iâm done.
Karly: And sheâs tempting isnât she? Sheâs likeâŚâlook at my luscious hairâ.
Anissa: Yeah!
Karly: Her baby Gia has the most gorgeous hair, itâs so cute.
Ali: Nothing is better for me on a baby.
Anissa: She did come out with a lot of hair. Yeah, itâs funny, too, because I keep putting bows on her but I recently realized big bows are because a lot of babies are bald. Giaâs not bald and the big bows look funny on her.
Karly: Her hair basically swallows up the bow, itâs like, âsee ya later!â
Anissa: Yeah! Yeah, I was like, âwhy do they make these? They donât fit rightâ, and then Iâm like âoh yeahâŚa lot of babies are baldâ.
Karly: Not your babies. Not your babies. Ok, well do you want to start off by telling us a little bit about your birth with Jimmy and how you decided where you were going to give birth and weâll just go from there.
Ali: Yeah, and the prep stuff, like going into it, how did you prepare and what did you want? Iâm always curious about that.
Anissa: Yeah!
Karly: And was it a planned pregnancy?
Anissa: Well, it was kind of like a âif it happens it happensâ and I think I was 24 when we got pregnant, and Gabe was 27 and we were ready and we were ecstatic when we found out. Itâs just kind of like that whole starting a family is exciting and IâŚ. my mom had started to mention: âlook into natural birth.â Maybe thatâs an option for you if you want to do it. She had some back issues after having her epidural with my brother.
Karly: I didnât know that!
Anissa: Mmhmm yeah, so she said maybe look into natural birth because she didnât want me to have to go through some of the back issues she was having. And so we started looking into it together and we did hypnobirthing classes and at the time Gabe was still waiting on a transfer down from the Bay Area because we were living in the Bay Area.
Karly: He was in the military at the time?
Anissa: No, not anymore. He was working for CalTrans so he could have transferred but they were taking so long and so basically all of my pregnancy he was in the Bay Area, and I was down here working, and we had bought a house down here, so I was living in the house. And we were doing hypnobirthing classes and my mom was like my partner, so it was kind of funny. We looked like we were a lesbian couple in there.
[Laughter]
Karly: Itâs like when thereâs a big age gap in couples and itâs like âoh is this your dadâ âno, itâs my boyfriendâ. âIs this your partner? No, itâs my mom!â
Anissa: Exactly, exactly. So yeah, it was neat to have her in the hypnobirthing classes with me and I even kind of almost got home birth as an option and my husband Gabe kind of was like âuh this is our first, maybe we should be in a hospital in case anything happensâ. He was the one that was a little bit more wary. But I got a doula, like I said, we were doing the hypnobirthing classes, I was already in the mindset, like, Iâm gonna do this, I wanna have a natural birth. And the hospital that I was gonna birth at had a midwife program and I was like, âoh thatâs perfect, I want a midwife, I donât really want to see the OBGYN. Iâd rather just go for the midwife.â And so they set me up with a midwife and I started seeing her. So fast forward, my 34 week ultrasound, the midwife looked at Jimmy and she was like âuh ohâ and I was like âwhat do you mean âuh ohâ, whatâs âuh ohâ?â
Ali: God thatâs likeâŚwhat could be a worse thing to say when youâre doing an ultrasound of someoneâs baby? Like Please! Get your bedside manner together!
Anissa: Yea, oh my gosh, but yea she was like âoh well heâs breech so weâre going to have to schedule you for a C sectionâ. And I was like what are you talking about? Hold on, you sound way too calm. Thatâs not the plan! And she said, âWell, your options are that you can do a cephalic version at 36 weeks, but, with the disclaimer that if the baby doesnât respond weâre going to have to do a c section at that time.â And I remember feeling flush because, remember, Gabe wasnât going with me to appointments because he was in the Bay Area so I just went cold and was like âoh my goshâ you know what I mean? This is not the plan!
Karly: Youâre like âWeâre too far into this game to change the plan!â
Anissa: Exactly! Exactly! And 36 weeks, a C section? Heâs got time to cook, you know? Nothing is wrong! So, after the 34 week ultrasound I was so determined, Iâm gonna flip this baby. So I started asking around. I started at the hypnobirthing classes. They had always been saying breech is a variation of normal. Breech is fine, your baby is fine. The baby can flip even when youâre in labor and so I first started with acupuncture. I was going twice a week and she was doingâŚI forget what itâs calledâŚ
Karly: Moxibustion!
Anissa: Yes, thank you, yes, thatâs what she was doing, and I was doing Spinning Babies where I would lean over on the couch and try to make room for Jimmy to flip. And then I even went as far as seeing Nicole Morales and she literally- it was the most amazing experience ever-she had me in her office. There was a couch and she put this ironing board up against the couch and she had me lay upside down and she had Jimmy up and out of my pelvis, and she was like âthis baby is flip-able, youâd be a good candidate for a cephalic versionâ.
Ali: I wanna jump in real quick. For people who donât know, Nicole Morales is a really amazing midwife in San Diego and body worker and Spinning Babies queen. Sheâs incredible and we actuallyâŚI canât remember the episode number, but we had her on to talk about breech because sheâs like the breech queen. So if you wanna hear more from her, go back and find that episode. Sorry to interrupt.
Anissa: No, thatâs ok. Yeah sheâs amazing, especially for breech babies. So at 39 weeks I did the cephalic version. I reluctantly called and I was like âok, Iâm ready to do thisâ. So I went in and on the day that I went in they said that I didnât have enough fluid and they were like âok, youâre going to meet your baby todayâ, and I was like âwhat are you talking about?â I didnât have the car seat, I didnât have clothes, I wasnât ready, and they did a C section! And on the table I just remember crying my eyes out and the anesthesiologist was like âare you ok? Are you in pain?â
And I was like âno, I just donât want thisâ. I was not ready.
Ali: Thatâs devastating
Anissa: Yeah, and it was just really hard. And side note: up until after this birth, I wasnât able to tell that story without crying. It was so hard.
Karly: Yeah, you know, I think that sometimes people underestimate the process that birth is and that the labor is actually a pretty important part to get you prepped get you into a different mindset, and then you can kind of come out of it feeling like âIâm ready to have a baby, Iâm ready for the pregnancy to be overâ
Ali: Or at least knowing, even if itâs a scheduled cesarean. It sounds like the part that was hard was feeling like the rug was pulled out from under you.
Anissa: Yeah
Karly: And maybe you wanted to gestate him longer because you said you were only 36 weeks or were you 37 at that point?
Anissa: No, I finally did it at 39 weeks.
Karly: Oh, at 39! I was gonna say, that seems weird that they would do a c section at 36 or 37 weeks for that. But ok, so 39 weeks. So, youâve got JimmyâŚ. Continue from where you left off.
Anissa: Yeah, thatâs ok. Itâs just kind of like we hit the ground running. It felt like it was really hard to breastfeed him. It felt like it took forever for my milk to come in. Itâs justâŚall these little things that felt like it was so rough. Oh and of course, you knowâŚC sectionâŚMy hatâs off to the moms that do multiple C sections because the recovery is intense. Like, I just remember not even being able to turn over in bed. You donât realize how much you use your abs until you canât use your abs.
Karly: Yeah, until using your abs inflicts great pain. Itâs hard for so many reasons. You canât laugh without being in pain. A lot of times when people are trying to nurse the baby the baby will kick on the incision. Thereâs a lot of stuff about that that can be pretty uncomfortable.
Anissa: Yeah, so I felt likeâŚI donât know, I guess I just felt really defeated after it. I felt like nothing went as planned, and granted a lot of times, well, most of the time it doesnât go the way youâre planning. Itâs a surprise.
Karly: For sure.
Ali: It will surprise you no matter what.
Anissa: Exactly. And I totally understand that, I just felt like it was very forced for something that wasnâtâŚhe wasnâtâŚI donât knowâŚhis life wasnât in danger, you know? I was ready to go home, go into labor, and if I needed to go into the hospital. Or go normally, when I would have.
Karly: MmhmmâŚand did you feel like you missed out on the opportunity to just see how your body experienced it and see what your body was going to do?
Anissa: I think thatâs what it was. Because for me I was ready to feel the contractions, I had taken the hypnobirthing classes. I was just ready for that part of it, you know? And not even being able to experience it, not even knowing what a contraction felt like after my first kid, you know? For me, I felt robbed, I guess.
Karly: Like youâd skipped a step. There was a step in the process and that step was gone.
Anissa: Yeah, so fast forward to Gia. We got pregnant at the end of last year and we were really excited. You know, weâd always known we wanted our kids to be close in age. And it was funny because I was so hesitant to even make a first appointment with the doctor. With Jimmy it was like, I called right away. As soon as I peed on the stick, I was like âwhen can I come?â and they were like âWait, wait, not yetâ. And this time with Gia, people were asking me âhave you seen a doctor yet?â I think it was almost 2 or 3 months already and theyâre like âHave you gone to the doctor?â And Iâm like, ânoooooo, I donât know what Iâm gonna do.â So, I started looking into midwives at that point. I was like âyou know what? Letâs just look into this as an option, letâs see where it goes, you know?â And so, Karly came up through a Facebook group where I just kind of went in and was like âalright, who was your midwife?â and everybody posted. And I looked at her website and was like âaww ok, Iâm gonna give her a callâ. And I told Karly my birth story with Jimmy, and it was amazing, we just kind of clicked. She was just so understanding, and she just told me that I was a really good candidate for a VBAC because I didnât go into labor so when they sutured me back upâŚwhat did you tell me Karly?
Karly: So, my friend who is a CNM told me this becauseâŚwell, Iâm gonna let you all in on a little secret: Iâm always going to tell you the positive aspects of your situation. Haha. Because for me, if somebodyâs has labored and maybe got to 10 cm but the baby was posterior and then they had a c section, Iâll be like âyouâre a great candidate for a VBACâ and in your situation, too, my friend is a CNM and so she assists sometime with C sections and she sees the uterus when itâs open and she said she feels better about people doing VBACs when they havenât had labor because the uterus is still very thick. The lower uterine segment thins out during labor and so to her it seems like a more solid suture job, like it would be a more solid scar and all of that. So, she was just like âIt makes me feel more comfortable if they havenât laboredâ so thatâs the version I told you!
Anissa: Well, that was great because I was like âcool, weâre doing this!â
Ali: You needed somebody to believe in you, right?
Anissa: Yeah, I think thatâs what it was. I had it in the back of my mind that this was what I wanted but I think because of what she told me: âyouâre a great candidateâ Iâm like, âcool, weâre doing this!”
Karly: It was true, I didnât tell you anything that was untrue. You were a great candidate.
Ali: And for anyone whoâs listening, most people are great candidates for VBAC. Especially if youâve only had one cesarean. So yeahâŚfor what itâs worth. If you need that person to believe in you, itâs us!
Anissa: Yeah! And thatâs what I needed because I know that not a lot of hospitals will even let you do a VBAC and thatâs what I didnât want to hear. And I think thatâs why I kept putting off even that initial doctor visit. Because I didnât want to hear: âno, probably better for you to have a C section. Itâll be easierâ, or you knowâŚAnd I feel bad because I have some friends too that I feel like for lack of a better word, they get tricked when they go to the hospital and theyâre like âoh yeah, you know what? Itâs just going to be a lot easier for you to do a C Section.â You know?
Ali: Itâs gonna be a lot easier for you (the doctor) to do a C section!
Anissa: Exactly! Exactly!
Ali: I always feel the need to say these disclaimers, but, choosing a C section or having a repeat C sectionâŚthereâs nothing wrong with that. The thing where thereâs the problem, for me, I think, and for us is when somebody is coerced or pushed into it or not given a true choice.
Anissa: Yes, exactly. That was my whole thing. I didnât want it to be deceiving in any way. If you lay out all the options and you get to make your choice, thatâs all I wanted. I just wanted to be able to make my choice and then go from there. But yeah, so anyway I started seeing Karly and I just felt so comfortable. I felt like she, you know, I didnât feel rushed. You go to the doctor for your prenatal appointments and theyâre like âok, do you have any questions?â and youâre like âyeah, I had a million questions before I got here but nowâŚâ
Ali: They have one foot out the door when theyâre asking that, yeah.
Anissa: Yeah, exactly, exactly. You maybe have 10 minutes that you actually see the person thatâs caring for you. And with Karly it was totally different. We would talk about comparing my pregnancies, even just what I was experiencing. Anything different from the last one, anything I was worried about. A, b, c, d, e, f, g, all the way down.
Karly: Iâm pretty casual. We just hang out for an hour, chit chat about whatever comes up.
Anissa: Yeah it was awesome. And that was amazing in itself because I have a 2 year old so I was like âok, Iâve got to go to my prenatal appointmentsâ But little do you know that itâs also a chit chat session.
Ali: âIâm gonna need a full hour, itâs a very important medical appointment.â
Anissa: Hahah exactly!
Karly: Really itâs more like a stitch and bitch, great place to come complain about your husband if youâre having any problems, haha.
Anissa: oh yeah, especially when youâre pregnant everything is bothering you.
Ali: Ok, so you guys are doing your prenatals, youâre having your stitch and bitchâŚ
Anissa Yeah! So, I think it was around 31 weeks and it was maybe a day or two after I had seen Karly, I felt the baby. I didnât feel her flip, but I felt something different, and I just started feeling kicks down low instead of where I had normally felt them up by my ribs. And so, I texted her and I said, âyou know is this something I should be worried about?â And she said, âyeah can I see you tomorrow?â So, I went in, and she felt her and sure enough she had flipped. She could feel her little head up by my ribs. And she kind of, you know, pushed on her a little bit, and wiggled her around a little bit and sheâs like âmmm do you want to see if we could try to flip her?â and I was like âyeah! You donât have to ask me twice! What do I need to do? Want me to spin on the floor? Want me to do a head stand? What?â
Ali: Do you have that ironing board? Iâll do anything!
Anissa: Whatever it takes, weâll do it. And so, she did. She super gently pushed on her a little bit and then started wiggling her around and she flipped her and it was amazing. I was ecstatic for the rest of the day. I canât even describe the elated feeling I had that we flipped this baby. And yeah, after that she didnât flip back anymore.
Karly: Iâm so glad!
Ali: Thatâs amazing. Oh my gosh, thatâs surprising actually.
Karly: It happens a lot for me, actually.
Ali: Oh, does it?
Karly: Yeah, and especially in your situation because youâd had a breech baby and that was an issue. I didnât want it to be something that would be triggering you if we could do something about it then. You know, I didnât want to send you home without at least trying it if that was what you wanted, too, just because I donât want you to go home worrying about it. I find that if a baby is not head down by 33 or 34 weeks, theyâre still really small and some babies will not budge but some babies move really easily and then theyâll go head down and stay there.
Ali: There we go. And you were only 31 weeks when you did this, so she was even smaller?
Anissa: Yeah
Karly: And with you, I probably wouldnât have done anything with somebody who hadnât already had a breech baby but since you had, I was like, well thereâs no harm!
Ali: I think itâs worth mentioning for people listening that most midwives, I mean, plenty of  midwives will do palpation and probably see if babies could move, but most donât do a full version or external cephalic version where they turn the baby later on in pregnancy in the office, just to set expectations.
Karly: Yeah, I donât try it when theyâre like 36 and above. I think Iâve really only tried it up until 34 weeks when theyâre just little babies.
Ali: Anyway, so she stayed downâŚ
Karly: We had a baby that was head down.
Ali: Was there anxiety about âwhat if she turns back?â or did you really get to enjoy that relief? Or what was the rest of the pregnancy like in that sense?
Anissa: Um, yeah I guessâŚ.
Karly: We talked a little bit about just knowing where she was, because you knew she had changed position because you were the one who had told me. You were like âoh I feel her feet in a different spotâ and so I think we talked about what to look for and you always felt her in the right spot after that, right?
Anissa: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I think after we did that you told me not to do the inversions anymore.
Karly: Right
Anissa: Yeah, I donât know, after that I just felt so good, and she probably felt better. I donât know, my hormones were better, something was better. She was like âIâd better stay like this, because if I turn around my mom is gonna freak out.â
Ali: Sheâs like âall this joy, this pure joy injection I just got? Weâre gonna keep this.â
Karly: Yeah âIâm doing something right this timeâ
Anissa: Yeah, exactly, Iâm trying to think if there was anything else that we did after that. No I think that was it. It was just so smooth. The pregnancy was so smooth, and the birth was amazing. Like, oh my gosh!
Karly: Letâs get into that!
Ali: Yeah. Well, what was it like mentally preparing to labor when youâd had a baby, but you hadnât labored, and how was your mental game getting ready for this and going into the birth?
Anissa: So, it was kind of like I guessâŚlike hunting for something that you donât know what it looks like. I kept asking Karly what it feels like because I never had a contraction, so I was trying to picture, ok, is it going to feel like I have to poop? Like, I donât know to be waiting for, I guess. I donât know. It was crazy. So, I started getting contractions on the Thursday before she was born and it was, I donât even know how to describe it. It was literally like they say; your stomach tightens up a little bit, and then nothing. But it was not anything consistent. So Friday I asked Karly if there was anything that we could do to speed it up and she said âwell, you have a few options.â It was the herbs, castor oil, which she was like, âyou will throw up and you will have diarrheaâ, so I was like, ânoâ.
Ali: It will not be enjoyable for you.
Anissa: Yeah, exactly
Karly: I think I always tell people itâs the act of a desperate woman or person.
Anissa: So, she said you could also see your chiropractor, so I said âoh, thatâs perfectâ so I texted my chiropractor. I was able to see her the same day. And like, almost within 30 minutes of leaving I was like, âok, I think this is laborâ. My stomach was contracting and then it would stop and then 30 minutes would go by and then I would get another one. But it was really never consistent. So, I was texting Karly the next morning and I think you called me too, but I was trying to figure out why I would have a contraction and then it would be like 14 minutes and then Iâd have another one itâd be like 6 minutes and then Iâd get really excited and then Iâd have another one and it was like 8 minutes. It was just all over the place. And so, she told me that once they were about 1 minute in length and really strong, as long as it wasâŚwhat did you say? 3-7 minutes apart?
Karly: Mmhmmm some people donât ever have really consistent, regular contractions. Iâve had people where even in transition theyâre still every 3-8 minutes apart. Thereâs a lot of variety to be had in the way people labor. So, we were more focused on intensity of the contraction and how long the contractions were lasting.
Anissa: Yeah, that was me. And itâs funny now thinking back, I wonder if I would have had a home birth anyway, even if I thought I was going to have a hospital birth because they never really got so consistent that I would have been like, âok, itâs time to goâ, you know?
Karly: I think that when you were getting closer to pushing, I think they were pretty consistent. I donât remember noticing huge gaps or anything.
Anissa: Well, but by the time I was pushing, like you know what I mean, I wouldnât have been like âok, maybe we should go to the hospitalâ.
Karly: âMaybe I should push this baby out in the car on the wayâ [laughter]
Ali: Letâs just do this here, how about that?
Anissa: Exactly, I would have been like that lady that had her baby, did you see that one, where they caught the baby outside of the hospital?
Karly: Oh, I think Iâve seen 10 like that, I donât know, haha!
Anissa: That would have been because the only reason I even knew they even tell you, ok, I think you should come over now was because I was talking to you on the phone and in contact with you. That doesnât happen when youâre at the hospital. I donât know. Just another reason why my home birth was perfect. AnywayâŚ
Ali: So, when you got there, Karly, it sounds like the contractions were consistent, but what was it like for you to experience the contractions?
Anissa: So, I feel like because of my hypnobirthing classes and because, I donât know, I just wanted it so bad, I was like, this was what I wanted, and this is what Iâm doing. So, I would feel the contractions, but I would breathe through them and almost, I donât know, itâs such a dream now looking back because I had the eye mask on, and I donât know, it was just so serene.
Karly: You really went into labor land. You were just disconnected, altered state of consciousness. Yeah, you really got into the zone, and you stayed there until the baby was out.
Anissa: Yeah, it was amazing. And then my mom, I donât even know where she learned this, she brought the crock pot up into our bathroom and she filled it with water, and she put washcloths in it and then a drop or two of lavender essential oil. And so, every time I would get a contraction, she would wring out a washcloth and run it over to my uterus area, kind of like when you get menstrual cramps, and you use something warm. And that helped so much with my contractions. It helped to relax and soon as I would get one.
Karly: Sheâs a good mom.
Ali: Yeah, sheâs got doula energy, a doula mom.
Anissa: Yeah, she was amazing, she was just rubbing me, I donât know how many hours she rubbed me with almond oil, and she was just massaging me, it was amazing.
Karly: Her mom is really the best.
Ali: It was really special to have her there.
Anissa: Yeah, it was awesome, and then I think Karly got here at 7-ish and then I hopped into the tub. Well, not hopped.
Karly: Like a bunny!
Ali: Crawled. Crawled into the tub.
Anissa: Yeah, I got into the tub at like 9-ish and then that just flew by because she was born at 11:11.
Ali: Whoa! And what time did your labor actually start to where it wasnât, you know, 15 minutes apart but they were like âok, these are taking all of my attention, theyâre intense, theyâre regularâ, when was that?
Anissa: It was probably about 5. 5 oâclock is when I think I called Karly and was like âI think theyâre getting closerâ.
Ali: 5 PM???? Oh my God!
Karly: Yeah, 6 hours of active labor! Howâs that for a successful VBAC?
Ali: Thatâs what dreams are made of!
Karly: That is what dreams are made of. Anissa is what dreams are made of
Anissa: Hahah it was just. Iâm telling you it was like the yin and yang because my first one was a nightmare and I think because the second one was so smooth, it kind of like gave me that closure of like, âok I did it.â
Karly: It can feel healing and like you know what itâs like to complete the process and do the whole thing!
Anissa: Yeah, and I think I kind of deserved a good birth after that first. It was terrible!
Karly and Ali: You did!
Anissa: Some people probably have like âoh, yeah, I had a good birth the first one, and then I had a good birth the second one. But no, I had a terrible, horrible, fucked up first birth, and then the second was like, I couldnât have asked for a better birth.
Karly: So, at the time of the birth, like when you started pushing, how were you feeling, um, were you still heavily in labor land and checked out or did you start getting excited, or something else?
Anissa: Um, so for the last couple, I just remember feeling this gray area, I donât know. I just remember that part where the baby was kind of crowning, I guess? Where I was like âoh shit! Iâm doing this, Iâm doing this right now, I canât believe it, thereâs no turning back! This is gonna happen and IâmâŚthis is happening. So, I kind of came out of labor land to be like âoh fuck, oh my god!â
Ali: Like, shit just got so real.
Anissa: Yeah, exactly, like âok, this is it, this is why everybody is like âno, Iâm not doing a natural birthââ
Laughter
Karly: Like, suddenly this makes sense!
Ali: Pull. The. Plug. What are we doing?
Anissa: Exactly, exactly.
Karly: I dabbled and that was enough. Iâd like to eject out of my body now!
Anissa: Yeah and remember afterward, youâre assistant midwife was like âyou did so great! Not once did you say âI canât do thisââ and I was like, âI didnât know that was an optionâŚâ
Ali: Thatâs amazing
Laughter
Karly: I love that response.
Ali: Thatâs such a good response because to be fair, so many people say that canât do it and saying that doesnât mean you didnât do a good job. Most people say that that have unmedicated births, but it is always striking when someone doesnât and thatâs so funny that you were just like âyeah this is what weâre doing guys, does everyone else not know?
Karly: This babyâs not in anyone elseâs uterus so I guess Iâm stuck with it.
Anissa Exactly, exactly, like this is how I wanted to do this, Iâm doing it. Iâm doing.it. Whatâs the other choice? Whatâs the other option other than going to the hospital but that was already out the door. We were here, this baby was coming.
Karly: Oh, so out the door, and you know we never had to do anything like, I donât know if I ever even asked you if you had to push because it was so obvious when you got the urge to push. And it was just very instinctual the way you pushed her down and out. And Gabe got to catch the baby if I remember correctly, and he was INTO that.
Anissa: Yeah, he really was, it was so nice to see how involved he was wanting to be with Gia. And I guess too- because he formed that relationship at the beginning too, with Karly – able to ask her whatever and it was more casual. But yeah, he actually wanted to catch her. He told me he wanted me to make sure to say he was playing the Om frequency because the Om frequency is when something is already created. Thatâs what he said. He related it too to the hypnobirthing classes because they tell you to hum through your surges, your contractions. And so all of my humming was getting deeper and deeper as the contractions were getting more intense and it was funny because it almost matched the frequency at the end when she was coming. It was so rad.
Ali: It sounds so beautiful.
Karly: It was, I mean, it could not have been any smoother, seriously. Most of the time my VBAC clients do great, you know, Iâve had a few but you always just wonder no matter who it is, like, howâs this gonna go? Is there gonna be a transfer? I mean, all of those questions were eliminated. When the baby was there, we were just like âwow, this was so smooth!â
Anissa: yeah, and the next day, even right after, she started nursing right away. I didnât have a problem with my latch. My nipples didnât even get thatâŚI mean that could just be because theyâre rubber now, but they werenât in much pain. And even the next day I just, I felt like I had run a marathon, and Iâve never run a marathon before. And I relate it too to people who are like âyouâre crazy, you had a natural birth in your house, I could never do that.â And thatâs my reaction when people run a marathon. Iâm like, âI canât do that, are you kidding me? Youâre crazy!â You know what I mean?
Ali: I feel the same way about marathon running and birth. The birth thing seems way more possible.
Anissa: Yeah! Exactly! And the next morning it was so crazy because it felt like every muscle in my body was sore and you donât realize how much you use every muscle in your body until the next day. But I was up, I wanted to take a shower and I wanted to do things like normal. I guess thatâs where, you know, a lot of people overexert themselves and theyâre like âoh wait, maybe I should have not done that,â but I donât know. I just felt like I was ready to go.
Ali: Thatâs amazing. You were comparatively speaking to the last time, right?
Anissa: Yeah, exactly and I think thatâs what it was where I was like âwow, I feel great! Iâm fineâ.
Karly: Sometimes itâs even just a big difference between your first baby and your second baby. Some people even if they have a vaginal home delivery with their first baby, no epidural, all that stuff, a lot of times when they go on to have on to have their second baby, theyâre just like âwhoa! Recovery! so much easier this time.â But yes, especially when you had a full blown abdominal surgery to compare the recovery to? yeah, I mean your smooth and relatively short delivery for a first laborâŚ
Ali: Yeah, very short. For a first labor? Like, very short
Karly: Yeah, which was awesome.
Ali: If I could put in a request, I would request your birth. Like, can I have Giaâs birth, please? Iâll take one, thank you. Iâll have what sheâs having!
Anissa: And Iâm telling you itâs a trick! Itâs a trick. Weâre a two-baby family, I wanna be done.
Karly: It is a trick but some people kind of get into that mindset where theyâre like: âIâm gonna quit while Iâm ahead. Had one good birth, letâs not tempt fate. Weâre gonna stop right there.â
Ali: Yep, Iâve heard that. Certainly.
Karly: Yeah, but it just ended up being this sweet little way to kind of heal that trauma and those feelings of missing out that you had with Jimmyâs birth and Gabe got to be involved. I donât think we even had to do stitches, did we? Did you tear?
Anissa: No, no. I was super lucky. I was convinced that I did though. Remember I was in that moment, and I was like âoooooh shitâ!
Ali: I feel like everyone feels that. Yeah.
Karly: Especially when you feel that burning. You definitely associate that with tearing.
Ali: I mean, how could you not, right?
Karly: Exactly:
Anissa: In my head I had a slit now. Like, no more holes, just one long slit
Karly: Oh, that is so terrifying
Ali: I think though that a lot of people will be like: âthe slit feeling? Mmhmmm, yep, yep!â
Karly: but the most important question is how does your vagina feel now?
Anissa: Oh, like I didnât push out a baby. But, you know, it feels normal.
Karly: Good, great, thereâs nothing better than normal. Weâre so happy about a normal feeling vagina.
Ali: Healing, we love healing!
Anissa: Yeah, and you know, itâs funny, because when you think about weeks, you think oh itâs been 2 ½ months and it sounds like a long time but itâs really only be 9-10 weeks.
Karly: And it probably started feeling normal even earlier.
Anissa: Oh yeah, like I said, just total difference from the first time. Everything just went so much smoother with the second, with Gia. And I donât know, like you were saying earlier it felt like it just has to do with going into labor and your bodyâs likeâŚok, your body knows what to do! Our bodies are made to procreate, obviously so my body just knew what it was doing, and I just went into autopilot.
Karly: Yeah, the hormones birth set a lot of other things into motion and those all worked perfectly this time for you. So do you have anything like advice that you want to say or something to wrap up those birth experiences?
Anissa: A lot of people ask me âhow did you do it and my whole thing was just getting in the mindset. In my mind it was going to be this way in regard to the natural birth. It was just like: âthis is how Iâm going to do it, and this is how itâs going to be done.â When you leave room for doubt in yourself then you canât do it. What do they say? Whether you think you can or you think you canât, youâre right.
Ali & Karly: Exactly
Anissa: Yeah, and so just knowing if itâs what you want to do then set your mind to it and do it. And the other thing too is Iâve been telling my friends, you know, talk to a midwife. Donât be afraid to call a midwife, ask questions. If that ends up not even being your midwife, thatâs fine but at least youâre going to have more information than you did even just going to the doctor or the hospital.
Ali: Totally. Home birth isnât such a crazy thing.
Anissa: Yeah, especially with the current times and the stuff going on right now with the hospitals being overflowing and stuff like that. Itâs just a really good time for hopefully a transition and more home births in general.
Karly: We definitely saw an uptick in San Diego, I know that.
Ali: Well, and there just arenât the restrictions, not even close to the number of restrictions when youâre at home. There arenât really restrictions when youâre laboring and birthing at home. And, you know, hospitals are not a bad place to give birth, especially if thatâs what somebody wants or they need but itâs much more difficult to get the hands off supportive natural, truly whatever-you-want-you-get experience and weâll intervene when we need to at a hospital vs. at home. Well, it sounds like you had such an amazing, healing experience and I know so many people are going to love to hear about this because I think itâs really relatable that you had, to have one of your experiences be really tough and traumatic and to find some healing in a future birth so thank you for sharing.
Anissa: Thank you guys, thank you for listening, and Karly for giving you the courage to share.
Karly: Oh, Iâm so glad you did because everyone loves a VBAC story, and youâve got a good one!
Ali: You do, yeah. Two breech babies!
Karly: Iâm sure a lot of people will find inspiration from this. For sure
Anissa: Oh, thank you. I canât wait to hear the final product.
Karly: Well, also thank you for having such a great birth. I really love being a midwife at births like yours.
Ali: Those are the ones where weâre like âoh I could keep doing this for a whileâ
Karly: I could do this forever!
Ali: Yeah, if theyâre all like this I could do this forever!
Anissa: No, itâs funny, too, remember we were joking because Karly brings all her birth supplies in suitcases and afterward Gabe was like âthey were ready to stay, like, I think they thought they were gonna be here for like a few days.
Karly: He thought those were clothes and MREâs or something like that. A tent I was gonna set up in the back yard. Buddy!
Ali: And itâs like, your gear. Hahaha. And heâs like âitâs weird, she brought one of those hammocks she was gonna sling it across the backyard, I donât knowâŚâ Thatâs so funny.
Anissa: He was all âI think he thought you were gonna be in labor for a long timeâ
Ali: Youâre like âGod, they really showed up with a lot of shit.â
Karly: No, Itâs full of an oxygen tank and suturing materials, IV supplies, stuff like that. But I love that. Itâs so funny when you find out later what someone was thinking. In the moment you think âthis is just my norm, this is what do. Everyone recognizes this is my equipment, what else would I drag in here?â
Ali: Iâve never thought about that. Thatâs so funny because it is so normal to us. Itâs hysterical.
Karly: Yeah, itâs pretty great.
Ali: Heâs like âGod, Karlyâs pretty high maintenance. Did you guys realize this?â Meanwhile her supplies are like a pair of underwear shoved in the bottom of her bag and a granola bar. Those are her personals.
Karly. No, thatâs really more like it. Maybe a toothbrush floating around if Iâm really prepared.
Ali: Thatâs hysterical.
Karly: You can imagineâŚIâve got a giant steak dinner in my suitcase.
Ali: YeahâŚand a camp stove, sheâs likeâŚ
Karly: ready to dine! Oh, there are so many opportunities for ridiculousness.
Ali: Yes, there really are. Well, weâll let you get back to your sweet family but thank you so much, Anissa!
Anissa: Thank you!
Ali: And thank you all for listening to another episode of the podcast, we love you. Um, you know my spiel. Check out our website, birthkweens.com. If you want to order steam herbs or check out show notes or anything like that. We also have our Instagram at @birthkweens and our Facebook group the Birth Kweens podcast community, and you can also leave us a rating and review on iTunes if youâd like. Alright, weâll talk to you next time, Bye!
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